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Discussion Starter #1
Guess I'll be the first to tell you.

The pinging issue that I and many others have been having is now the subject of a recall as of this morning. Took my car in this morning to get it taken care of, and right on my paperwork it says that TSB #18-020-06 has been superseded by recall number F29.

You can thank me later! ;)
 

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Re: Spark knock issue is now a full-blown recall!

dammit, i just got my caliber back from service, they took care of all my other issues, except the knock, the dealers computers had to get updated with the new software, and they ordered parts on the exhaust.

so is this means they are going to flash everybody's caliber, or do something else?
 

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Re: Spark knock issue is now a full-blown recall!

Nothing on Dodge's site yet, according to the VIN lookup. I've not experienced the knock, but as soon as I see a recall on their site, I'm taking it in. Can't hurt to be sure.
 

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Re: Spark knock issue is now a full-blown recall!

NyllaTx said:
Nothing on Dodge's site yet, according to the VIN lookup. I've not experienced the knock, but as soon as I see a recall on their site, I'm taking it in. Can't hurt to be sure.
I just ran my VIN 5 minutes ago and a recall dated July 7, 2006 came up. It lists it as "Thermostat Diagnostic Software". The link to the recall description doesn't work yet, however.
 

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Re: Spark knock issue is now a full-blown recall!

creepingboost said:
I just ran my VIN 5 minutes ago and a recall dated July 7, 2006 came up. It lists it as "Thermostat Diagnostic Software". The link to the recall description doesn't work yet, however.
Hmmm... maybe it's according to build date? That's odd.
 

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Re: Spark knock issue is now a full-blown recall!

creepingboost said:
I just ran my VIN 5 minutes ago and a recall dated July 7, 2006 came up. It lists it as "Thermostat Diagnostic Software". The link to the recall description doesn't work yet, however.
Same here.

What in the world is "THERMOSTAT DIAGOSTIC SOFTWARE":confused: ...and it's spelled wrong.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Re: Spark knock issue is now a full-blown recall!

GOT said:
Same here.

What in the world is "THERMOSTAT DIAGOSTIC SOFTWARE":confused: ...and it's spelled wrong.
Yeah, even the service rep I was dealing with got a laugh out of that. I said I hope they got the programming right considering they didn't even get the spelling right. I've noticed that the pinging only happens after the car is good and warmed up, not when you first take off with a cool engine. This updated could be correcting false information being relayed to the computer from the coolant temp sensor. The two could certainly be related.

This is a serious issue that has me a little concerned. Typically, an automaker issues a recall if the problem in question is safety related. Even then its sometimes like pulling teeth remember the Dakota ball joint debacle?.

I give them credit for not screwing around and grabbing the bull by the horns here, but for DC to be issuing a recall for a mechanical issue (non-safety) this early in the production run, its definitely a concern. GM for example, has had problems with the intake manifolds on their 3.8 "K" motors forever. It's a well known fact that gases from the EGR passages deteriorate the intakes, yet there is no recall on it. They redesigned the replacement intake part number all but admitting a bad design - but still no recall!

Detonation is not good. It is not normal. It is more than just a noisy annoyance. That sound you hear is the equivalent of striking an upward moving piston with a hammer. If you've ever seen a piston that failed from detonation, you'd know what I mean.
 

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Re: Spark knock issue is now a full-blown recall!

Hopefully they DON'T flash every Caliber that comes in for even minor service.
Granted, this will help the ones with problems and maybe improve the ones without, but for now I would like to leave well enough alone. I state my reasons below.

Ours does not, nor has it ever pinged. Our gas mileage is a stable 26 avg. for the AWD R/T. The acceleration is very acceptable. We even have an early production car. Recvd it March 1, and yes we have enough mileage to know - 5000++.

Good luck on the people who need it, I hope it allows them to experience what we have had from day 1.:D
 

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Re: Spark knock issue is now a full-blown recall!

Orange, I too didn't think mine pinged till I drove in a small alley and up some parking garage ramps. It is VERY faint. You only hear it at low rpms/accelerating typically up incline. In addition, you can't hear it from within the cabin with windows up... the engine seems to be muffled quite well. I had an old car that spark knocked... on a scale of loudness I would rate my old car a 10 while the Caliber would be 2.

I just called the dealer up and they didn't have a clue about it. They were searching around and made the comment that they haven't had any mechanical issues for the Caliber come through yet. He seemed pretty convincing. He was able to pull up the recall notice and said it involved the flash, although he commented he wasn't sure if he had the new software yet. He said to check back on Monday after he had some time to hunt around.

SO the question is... is faint spark knock just as bad as louder spark knock? Since it is a recall, I'll probably take it in.
 

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Re: Spark knock issue is now a full-blown recall!

quadrajet said:
Yeah, even the service rep I was dealing with got a laugh out of that. I said I hope they got the programming right considering they didn't even get the spelling right. I've noticed that the pinging only happens after the car is good and warmed up, not when you first take off with a cool engine. This updated could be correcting false information being relayed to the computer from the coolant temp sensor. The two could certainly be related.

This is a serious issue that has me a little concerned. Typically, an automaker issues a recall if the problem in question is safety related. Even then its sometimes like pulling teeth remember the Dakota ball joint debacle?.

I give them credit for not screwing around and grabbing the bull by the horns here, but for DC to be issuing a recall for a mechanical issue (non-safety) this early in the production run, its definitely a concern. GM for example, has had problems with the intake manifolds on their 3.8 "K" motors forever. It's a well known fact that gases from the EGR passages deteriorate the intakes, yet there is no recall on it. They redesigned the replacement intake part number all but admitting a bad design - but still no recall!

Detonation is not good. It is not normal. It is more than just a noisy annoyance. That sound you hear is the equivalent of striking an upward moving piston with a hammer. If you've ever seen a piston that failed from detonation, you'd know what I mean.
That's what I was thinking! I recall my dad saying something like how you explained knocking... that the piston hits a wall (which is the knocking sound) and rods get bent, rings chipped, rollers dinged… or something. "Detonation"... "normal" yeah right!!!:mad:

Perhaps DCX doesn't want to be replacing motors when such a well documented growing problem like this occurs. That could be for THEIR safety and longevity. I have refused to buy anything Chrysler since the 80s because of my dad's experience with his K-car engine knock; and am hoping this new-world motor is the cat's meow.
 

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Re: Spark knock issue is now a full-blown recall!

quadrajet said:
... If you've ever seen a piston that failed from detonation, you'd know what I mean.
A normal piston (the top part of the animation):

http://www.alibre.com/images/other/partner/msc/Piston.gif

Examples of pistons damaged by detonation:

http://www.triples.demon.co.uk/journal/pis.jpeg

http://www.sacskyranch.com/piston.jpg

http://www.accurateis.com/images/piston.jpg

http://www.sdsefi.com/piston17.jpg

http://www.hastingsmfg.com/Service%20Tips/images/p25b.gif

http://www.enginehistory.org/TM/V4N3Piston.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Re: Spark knock issue is now a full-blown recall!

Great post Harley! Very effective, a picture really is worth a thousand words. Reminds me of that old commercial from the '80's - You know, the "this is your brain on drugs" one with the frying egg.....
 

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Re: Spark knock issue is now a full-blown recall!

The F29 Recall is NOT for spark knock. Below is a description of the recall directly from the Recall Notice:

EMISSIONS RECALL F29
REPROGRAM PCM - OBD THERMOSTAT MONITOR

NOTE: This recall only applies to vehicle built through May 11, 2006 (MDH 051106)

SUBJECT
The Powertrain Control Module (PCM) on about 29,600 on the above vehicles was inadvertently programmed with diagnostic software that is unable to detect an engine thermostat malfunction. As a result, the Malfunction Indicator Lamp will not illuminate if the thermostat fails.​
 

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Re: Spark knock issue is now a full-blown recall!

TommyLee said:
The F29 Recall is NOT for spark knock. Below is a description of the recall directly from the Recall Notice:

EMISSIONS RECALL F29
REPROGRAM PCM - OBD THERMOSTAT MONITOR

NOTE: This recall only applies to vehicle built through May 11, 2006 (MDH 051106)

SUBJECT
The Powertrain Control Module (PCM) on about 29,600 on the above vehicles was inadvertently programmed with diagnostic software that is unable to detect an engine thermostat malfunction. As a result, the Malfunction Indicator Lamp will not illuminate if the thermostat fails.​
Thanks for the details and clarification. I was wondering exactly what the recall was for.
 

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Re: Spark knock issue is now a full-blown recall!

So, perhaps this thread should be un-stickied or at least change the thread title... or start a new more correct thread. If what TommyLee says is right (and I know he's in the know) then the thread is missleading... and as a sticky it will be confusing to no end.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Re: Spark knock issue is now a full-blown recall!

TommyLee said:
The F29 Recall is NOT for spark knock. Below is a description of the recall directly from the Recall Notice:

EMISSIONS RECALL F29
REPROGRAM PCM - OBD THERMOSTAT MONITOR

NOTE: This recall only applies to vehicle built through May 11, 2006 (MDH 051106)

SUBJECT

The Powertrain Control Module (PCM) on about 29,600 on the above vehicles was inadvertently programmed with diagnostic software that is unable to detect an engine thermostat malfunction. As a result, the Malfunction Indicator Lamp will not illuminate if the thermostat fails.​
This is what it says on my invoice....

Customer states at low speeds when vehicle is warm and under load spark knock can be heard. Customer found TSB which may apply:18-020-06.....Performed engine system diagnostic. TSB# 18-020-06 superseded by recall #F29. Performed recall #F29 to update powertrain control module. Recall complete.

So are they lying? If so, that's kinda ballsy to put it in writing.
 

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Re: Spark knock issue is now a full-blown recall!

No ping on our Cali. just turned 1,000 miles last night. Still no complaints or defects found as of yet.
mike
 
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