[clockmaker]

Here in central Missouri there are many gas stations that sell E-85, and it is generally forty cents cheaper per gallon. If anyone knows or can find information about whether or not the world engines can run E-85 I would sure appreciate it. I have heard that any engine can run E-85, but the car must have teflon coated fuel lines, a stainless steel fuel tank and one other modification I can't remember. I'd like to know if the caliber can easily be modified to be able to run E-85 if it is not already compatible.

 

[TommyLee]

The Caliber "world" engines are not E-85 compatible.

 

[Amandyke]

This really shouldn't be under performance....

 

[caliber4whoosh]

Yeah, +2, General Discussion..

 

[.22]

What about gas that is 10% ethanol? There are a ton of stations around me that have the 10% ethanol gas. Do I need to drive in search of a "regular" station?

thanks

 

[GOT]

What about gas that is 10% ethanol? There are a ton of stations around me that have the 10% ethanol gas. Do I need to drive in search of a "regular" station?

thanks

You're talking about E-10 right? If I'm not mistaken that is safe to run in all cars. I've never heard otherwise and I used to run it in my previous cars all the time and nothing adverse happened.

I haven’t yet put E-10 in my Caliber.

 

[irloyal]

E10 will replace MBTE additive in most markets, so it better be safe.

 

[DodgeInfoCenter]

E-85 fuel is NOT approved for use in the Caliber 1.8, 2.0 or 2.4L I4 engines.

Right from the Owners Manual:

Many areas of the country require the use of cleaner burning gasoline referred to as “Reformulated Gasoline”. Reformulated gasolines contain oxygenates, and are specifically blended to reduce vehicle emissions and improve air quality.

The manufacturer supports the use of reformulated gasolines. Properly blended reformulated gasolines will provide excellent performance and durability of engine and fuel system components.

Gasoline/Oxygenate Blends Some fuel suppliers blend unleaded gasoline with oxygenates such as 10% ethanol, MTBE, and ETBE. Oxygenates are required in some areas of the country during the winter months to reduce carbon monoxide emissions.

Fuels blended with these oxygenates may be used in your vehicle.

Dan

 

[caliber4whoosh]

Thanks Dan!

 

[n1vek]

With E-85 having a octane rating of 100+, wouldn't it be possible to achieve some increased performance using it. I would assume that a chip would have a feature making it able to adjust to the higher octane and run effectivly off it. Any ideas?

 

[CoolCallie]

Welcome to the wonderful world of CAN, even though the protocol has been used pretty widely since 2003. In order to get someone like DiabloSport, Sniper Tuning, Superchips, SCT, etc, interested in your CAN ECU, you have to have a high volume, high demand vehicle like the Mustang. The SN-98 Mustang (2005+) got support and aftermarket from people like the above, even though it had CAN and variable cam timing.

Right now, your best bet is to go here:

http://www.sctflash.com/

And find an SCT authorized tuner near you and be prepared to drop about $500-$600 if not more, for the $399 XCal2 handheld tuner, dyno and tuning by them. The good thing with SCT and their tuners are, you get a base file, a completely stock tune. You can then use that and distribute it here and then those who buy the $399 XCal2 and PC link and download the free basic tuning (Which lets you play with a number of things in the file, but not a whole lot) software on SCT's website.

E-85 is another phase/fad that America is going through. First it was the hybrids, which if you haven't read the recent Consumer Reports article on them, where you would have to own one for about 9 years and drive it X amount of miles everyday before it STARTS paying you back in mileage when you factor the astronomical upkeep of them. The only thing E-85 has going for it is the fact it is renewable, besides that, you get worse gas mileage on it.

The real solution to the gas crisis.. bio-diesel. It is a renewable fuel that we throw out everyday. It comes from used cooking oil and is processed out into diesel fuel that can run in any diesel car, truck or semi without a single issue, it burns cleaner (Less smoking) and it smells like your frying french fries out of your tailpipes. I have heard of a few B-D plants going up in the States, so it should be coming to the pumps soon. With that in place, European diesel cars and trucks can be imported over, previously kept out of the States due to the high sulfur count in our diesel fuel. Diesels have come so far along in technological advancement that they can keep pace with the gasoline engine now.

 

[muzzysgirl]

Don't even get me started on E 85. I live in Iowa where we grow the ethynol crap. It's horrible... alcohol burn at a higher combustion rate than regular gasoline. Your engine will work harder to obtain the same results wasting mileage. So basically your are spening more in "gasohol" than gasonline.

Test it. Supposedly your engine seals are prepared and ready to handle the drying effect of alcohol, but man... it it doesn't end of costing you more..


I appologize in advance for my wine drinking affect on my typing.

 

[superbang]

that muzzysgirl. she's cute, but she's way cuter when she's drunk!!

 

[ejfb]

that muzzysgirl. she's cute, but she's way cuter when she's drunk!!

Two timing on the Cali now I see.

 

[Cali-brate]

Ahh, E85. Alcohol makes a wonderful fuel, I have used it in drag racing and model airplanes for years. In raw energy though, it only has about half the energy as gasoline, so your 85% alcohol is only worth 42% gasoline+ 15% gas already, means 57% of the energy per gallon. If your seals can handle it, likely your fuel supply system isnt set up to deliver 43% more fuel then normal, and your engine controller will probably turn on the check engine lamp to tell you there is a problem. Assuming, of course, that running your vehicle so lean doesnt cause a real problem first.

 

[irloyal]

With E-85 having a octane rating of 100+, wouldn't it be possible to achieve some increased performance using it. I would assume that a chip would have a feature making it able to adjust to the higher octane and run effectivly off it. Any ideas?

E-85 is a different animal in the fuel world. The combustion of ethanol produces a whole different set of byproducts that need to be contended with. For one, there is more wator vapor as a by-product of combustion, so the spark needs to be hotter. Other byproducts include acetelyhyde and formaldehyde in quantities significantly higher than gasoline. These compounds have etching effects on some metals, and can effect sensors, catalytic converters, and exhaust components.

The pH of ethanol is significantly different from gasoline, and this affects the material used to deliver the liquid and atomized liquid into the engine. Alcohol can be very corrosive to some plastics and so the fuel delivery system has to be engineered for it. It's not just as simple as putting it in the tank.

 

[irloyal]

...snip...

E-85 is another phase/fad that America is going through. First it was the hybrids, which if you haven't read the recent Consumer Reports article on them, where you would have to own one for about 9 years and drive it X amount of miles everyday before it STARTS paying you back in mileage when you factor the astronomical upkeep of them. The only thing E-85 has going for it is the fact it is renewable, besides that, you get worse gas mileage on it.

The real solution to the gas crisis.. bio-diesel. It is a renewable fuel that we throw out everyday. It comes from used cooking oil and is processed out into diesel fuel that can run in any diesel car, truck or semi without a single issue, it burns cleaner (Less smoking) and it smells like your frying french fries out of your tailpipes. I have heard of a few B-D plants going up in the States, so it should be coming to the pumps soon. With that in place, European diesel cars and trucks can be imported over, previously kept out of the States due to the high sulfur count in our diesel fuel. Diesels have come so far along in technological advancement that they can keep pace with the gasoline engine now.

Cal,
E85 and Hybrids being a fad are one mans (or womans...) opinion. E85 has the ability to be a good alternative fuel. Development of engines designed to specifically work on this fuel will lead to improvements in milage and performance.

Hybrids are another promising method to reduce the use of gasoline. As to the payback issue, well that's fools logic. You purchase a car for many reasons, milage may be one of them. What's the payback on airconditioning or XM radio? Hybrids provide one alternative to acheive better milage, and in some cases better performance overall. Hybrids may not be limited to gas electric either. Diesel electric hybrids are coming as well as fuel cell hybrids.

Bio diesel is another excellent option. I personally know a guy who has a diesel truck he uses on his farm pretty much exclusively. He actually gets the used frying oil from a couple of restaurants (for FREE ), filters it, and mixes it 50/50 with low sulpher diesel in the warmer months. The truck runs fine, and it really does smell like french fries.

None of these are solutions in themselves, but as we incorporate more and more alternatives, we reduce our dependance on foriegn sources of fuel. Now if congress would quit sitting on their brains and open up Alaska, and more of the coastal areas for drilling, we could start making a serious dent on imported oil.

 

[RadioDude]

AMEN to your last line! Too bad they can't take these little 4-bangers and do what they are doing to the HEMIs in the trucks, make them run on half the spark in cruising speeds...You'd think that CVT could really make that feasible.

 

[CoolCallie]

Cal,
E85 and Hybrids being a fad are one mans (or womans...) opinion. E85 has the ability to be a good alternative fuel. Development of engines designed to specifically work on this fuel will lead to improvements in milage and performance.

Hybrids are another promising method to reduce the use of gasoline. As to the payback issue, well that's fools logic. You purchase a car for many reasons, milage may be one of them. What's the payback on airconditioning or XM radio? Hybrids provide one alternative to acheive better milage, and in some cases better performance overall. Hybrids may not be limited to gas electric either. Diesel electric hybrids are coming as well as fuel cell hybrids.

Bio diesel is another excellent option. I personally know a guy who has a diesel truck he uses on his farm pretty much exclusively. He actually gets the used frying oil from a couple of restaurants (for FREE ), filters it, and mixes it 50/50 with low sulpher diesel in the warmer months. The truck runs fine, and it really does smell like french fries.

None of these are solutions in themselves, but as we incorporate more and more alternatives, we reduce our dependance on foriegn sources of fuel. Now if congress would quit sitting on their brains and open up Alaska, and more of the coastal areas for drilling, we could start making a serious dent on imported oil.

56 pounds of corn for 2 1/2 gallons of ethanol. That doesn't sound very effecient, especially coped with the less gas mileage you get on E-85. If you thought us importing crude oil from other countries was bad, wait until we start having to import corn from other countries. There are far more common and reoccuring factors that threaten the production of ethanol than of crude oil. Frost can easily damage and ruin a corn crop. If you though hurricane Katrina was bad to the gas prices, wait until every cold snap happens in Iowa and other huge corn producing states.

Funny thing is, the easiest way to lessen the use of gasoline without any electrical motors or corn or vegetables was discovered back in the 1980s by the biggest cheat in professional racing. Henry "Smokey" Yunick researched, developed and built the "Hot Vapor" engine, he patented it too. He built single, 2 and 3-cylinder engines off the design and converted existing 4-cylinder engines to it, such as the Plymouth Horizon and Pontiac Fiero. He more than halved their fuel consumption AND improved performance. He also built a Delorean DMC-12 with his Hot Vapor engine, all of these vehicles, the 3-cylinder Geo, the Fiero, the Horizon and DMC-12, although in different hands today, still run on the Hot Vapor engine without issue. Theoretically the engine should grenade itself, it's not scientifically sound, but the engines exist, they run and GM, Ford, Chrysler and several foreign car company tech's came to Smokey's garage in the 1980s driving the cars with these engines trying to get them to explode, but they never did. Smokey took the secret of the engine to his grave. Since, no one has even attempted a hot vapor engine design and I don't know why, especially considering Joe American who wants a 7.0L V8 with 40 MPG and 0 to 60 in 4-flat in every car they own.

 

[irloyal]

56 pounds of corn for 2 1/2 gallons of ethanol. That doesn't sound very effecient, especially coped with the less gas mileage you get on E-85. If you thought us importing crude oil from other countries was bad, wait until we start having to import corn from other countries. There are far more common and reoccuring factors that threaten the production of ethanol than of crude oil. Frost can easily damage and ruin a corn crop. If you though hurricane Katrina was bad to the gas prices, wait until every cold snap happens in Iowa and other huge corn producing states.

...snip...

Ethanol can be produced from a multitude of sources. Not just the corn kernals, but the cobs, stalks and husks, tailings from paper mills, KUDZU, wild grasses, etc. Again, it is not a total solution, but it is a renewable resource we can exploit. Again, the fools logic applies to frost, famine, hurricanes etc. What if games are best left to computer sims, and preparedness drills. If we were proposing to close the door on imported oil and go 100% ethanol, we would need to critically assess those scenarios. If we use E85 as an option for those who want to use it, we make a small dent in the BIG foreign oil can.

BTW - Hornish in the 90th running. Go Sam!