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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hi there everybody in Europe.

This is just a little something I checked out so you could all see who is getting screwed by their Government and who isn't.

These are a few prices for a Caliber SE 1.8 standard list price without options.

All prices incl VAT, BTW, or whatever its called with you (The Netherlands has an extra tax ,BPM, which accounts voor about 20 % of the price), and are On The Road.

Germany € 16.090
Italy € 16.900
France € 17.190
Belgium € 17.500
UK € 17.550
Netherlands € 21.500
Finland € 21.900

So there you have it.......... In The Netherlands and Finland you get screwed, taken to the cleaners and hung out to dry by the excessive tax on vehicles.

Any other countries would be welcome.

P.S........... The US price (had to use the SXT as an example) is € 13.427 incl 5% sales tax That should be right for a few states. Correct me if i'm wrong .

Dave.
 

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You are so right! The finnish car tax is unbelievable:confused: I hope that Union's comission will do something to this taxation. We have been members since 1995 but this is something that our goverment is battling against still.
 

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I think, there is a little bit more to it, than being screwed by your government!?

Of course they only want our very best at the end - our money, but after all, prices and taxes depend on the tax systems, the different countries have.

Its all about, how much of your brutto income remains in your pocket every month, after tax, health insurance, social fees, whatsoever.
Your brutto income again, depends on taxes and fees, your company has to pay for you as an employee and for operating their business in general.

Take a single person without kids and stuff, with a brutto income of about € 45.000,00/year (which is pretty much the average income for a german male in a fulltime job).

Brutto-Income: 45.000,00 - MINUS: Tax on wages: 9.771,00 - Solidarity loadings: 537,41 - Church Tax: 781,68 - Health Insurance: 3.334,50 - Care Insurance: 470,25 - Annuity Insurance: 4.387,50 - Unemployment Insurance: 1.462,50 = In Your Pocket: 24.255,17


If you are married with one child, it'll be €4800,00/year more left in your pocket, since another tax-class applies.

What is actually not counted into the above is, that your employer pays another € 10.000 as his part of the "insurances" (see above) which are impulsary, so your "virtual brutto income" in the above case will be € 55.000,00/year.

VAT in Germany is at 16% (19% from January 1st 2007 on) except for food and books, where a VAT of 7% applies.

One gallon of 95Oktan is at about € 5,10 ('bout 66% of it being tax)

Purchase price for the Cali will be an average yearly netto (= in your pocket) income.

Insurance for the Caliber will be about €550,--/year with a deductible of €1000,-- and a clean record for about 18years - taxes for the CRD will ad another €310,--.


Building a house on own ground..........well..............STOP IT ;)

Maybe some of you guys 'n gals like to ad the specs, valid in your country - to make things comparable somehow.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I didn't realise you were a fiscalist !!!!:(

The point is that in The Netherlands you get shafted. Houses in Germany are cheaper, cars are cheaper, wages are (on average) higher.

In Holland there's an extra 11 cents on a liter of gas, called "Kok's quarter" (it's from before the euro). That WAS promised as a temporary measure....... RIGHT !!!!!.

If you look at the stripped price of the Caliber (or any other vehicle) then there are almost no differences.

Oh, and by the way, some European Commision has deemed the BPM that we pay here as illegal and it has to be abolished within 5-10 years.

And it's no good buying over the border, coz the BPM in for all imported cars going back 7 years.

And the shitty thing is.......... every accessory is also taxed this way. A 6 CD changer costs an extra €575 here.

Before I forget, just for the record....... the BPM IS NOT YOUR MwSt (Thats our BTW). BPM is EXTRA and on my car it's € 4800.

And finally...... according your computation the price of a car is approx a years netto income ?. Well hell, Swoop, lets all emigrate to Albania.

Dave:mad:
 

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DutchDave said:
I didn't realise you were a fiscalist !!!!:(
Ähäm, to be precice, I am no fiscalist atz all!?
I simply was bored to death this morning at work and thought it won't do too much harm if I let all the fellow Calibristi know, how living down here in Hamburg is like, when it comes down to buying a Caliber ;)
 

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Could one of you post what the exchange rate is to US dollars please. No need to calculate all of them of course I would just like to get an idea myself.


The price of a Caliber SE 1.8 standard list price without options is $13,985 + sales tax which differs between states. Here in Indiana where I am that is 6% bringing the grand total to = $14,824.

The one thing they do for us though is when we trade in a car or put money down we don't have to pay taxes on that portion. Which helps....some :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Hey Beth,

I edited the original post with a computation to reflect the approximate US price in euro's. The price for the SXT in the U.S. is $ 16.785 incl 5% tax. I had to use the SXT in my example because it's the closest to the European SE.

Dave.
 

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Sorry, I forgot about the specs being different on the trim packages there.
 

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BethJ said:
Could one of you post what the exchange rate is to US dollars please. No need to calculate all of them of course I would just like to get an idea myself.


The price of a Caliber SE 1.8 standard list price without options is $13,985 + sales tax which differs between states. Here in Indiana where I am that is 6% bringing the grand total to = $14,824.

The one thing they do for us though is when we trade in a car or put money down we don't have to pay taxes on that portion. Which helps....some :)
Hei Beth,

for example 15 000 US $ = 12 151,50 € (euro). So 22 000 € is 27 157,14 US $.
 

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Swoop said:
Take a single person without kids and stuff, with a brutto income of about € 45.000,00/year (which is pretty much the average income for a german male in a fulltime job).
Wow, €45.000 doesn´t sound like the average Joe Schmo brutto income here in Germany to me. More like the average income of university (of applied sciences) graduates. ;)
In fact I was offered quite a bit less than that 4 years ago after I graduated. But now I am self-employed.

@Dutchdave
I heard about the BPM in the Netherlands and that really sucks. :( But your comparision is really interesting, I was almost 100% sure, that the caliber would be a bit more expensive when compared to most other European countries. Guess I was wrong...
Hm...I talked to a dealer who re-imports cars from the Netherlands and he assured me that the price for "my" diesel would be about €2500 less than at the german dealership, but without the Dodge warranty. So it wasn´t very interesting for me.

My girlfriend & I think about immigrating to Cananda in some years, maybe we should do it now & buy the Caliber there. :p
 

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Federal, State and City taxes are about 8% here in Phoenix.

High taxes in many European countries are needed to pay for the socialized services there. Seems like many want the same thing for the USA. Get ready for it!
 

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DeMarco said:
Wow, €45.000 doesn´t sound like the average Joe Schmo brutto income here in Germany to me. More like the average income of university (of applied sciences) graduates. ;)
In fact I was offered quite a bit less than that 4 years ago after I graduated. But now I am self-employed.
Well, I've digged that quote out using good old Google and since I am no fiscalist after all, I took that for granted ;)

Honestly speaking, the average income for fulltime employed males was slightly lower, but then it was dated 2003 - thought it might make sense, to round it up by adding another 2K € for 2006.

I was kinda surprised about this rather high average too, but who the heck knows, how that statistic is calculated then? I don't!
 

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Huff said:
Federal, State and City taxes are about 8% here in Phoenix.

High taxes in many European countries are needed to pay for the socialized services there. Seems like many want the same thing for the USA. Get ready for it!
Yes, for example in Finland medical services are free including dental. Also day care of children is cheap and all education including universities are free (also for foreigners). Downside is that you have pay high taxes (my tax is 26 %). In Finland the taxation progessive = more you earn more you pay.
 

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jatael said:
Yes, for example in Finland medical services are free including dental. Also day care of children is cheap and all education including universities are free (also for foreigners). Downside is that you have pay high taxes (my tax is 26 %). In Finland the taxation progessive = more you earn more you pay.
Hi Jatael,

my example for the Johnny Average (above) is just about the same = about 26% of tax, but additionally, there are going another 13% into health insurance.

Seems even worse than what you guys pay and the funny part about our health insurance is, that dental isn't even entirely covered.

The good part is, that we both just survived the first month of waiting for our Calibers today ;)

ps: I think I owe you a translation in the test-report thread - will try to take care of that today!
 

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Swoop said:
Hi Jatael,

my example for the Johnny Average (above) is just about the same = about 26% of tax, but additionally, there are going another 13% into health insurance.

Seems even worse than what you guys pay and the funny part about our health insurance is, that dental isn't even entirely covered.

The good part is, that we both just survived the first month of waiting for our Calibers today ;)

ps: I think I owe you a translation in the test-report thread - will try to take care of that today!
Good morning Swoop!

Seems that you have to pay more for dental but we have to pay more for the cars :p Okay, I'm waiting for you report...This waiting stuff is hard :eek:
 

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Swoop said:
my example for the Johnny Average (above) is just about the same = about 26% of tax, but additionally, there are going another 13% into health insurance.
Just one note, Swoop: Johnny Average gets ~36000€/year here in Finland, while in Germany, you stated, that the figure was around 45000€/year. There is a huge difference...

Additionally, VAT is quite high here: 22% (17% for food and 8% for books, medicines etc.)

And, if you want a CRD Caliber, well SE version costs 27990€ here (SXT is 29990€). Additionally, for diesel vehicles, we pay an increased "diesel-tax" that depends on the weight of the vehicle. For any vehicle registrated after 1994, the basic tax annually is 127,75€...the so-called "diesel-tax" is for Caliber (CRD weight is 2015kg) 513,65€. Totally you'd have to pay annually 641,40€ for a CRD Caliber.

Jatael, I wouldn't hope too much of EU Commission, concerning the automobile registration tax in Finland. Even our own politicians have already stated, that this tax will NOT be removed completely, maybe slightly decreased. But on the other hand, the annual tax may be raised, depending on the CO2 emissions.

-JJ-


PS. Before coming to work today, I had to pay a little visit to local gas station: for 95E 1,381 €/liter (~ 6.60 $/gallon) :eek::eek::eek:
 

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BethJ said:
Could one of you post what the exchange rate is to US dollars please. No need to calculate all of them of course I would just like to get an idea myself.


The price of a Caliber SE 1.8 standard list price without options is $13,985 + sales tax which differs between states. Here in Indiana where I am that is 6% bringing the grand total to = $14,824.

The one thing they do for us though is when we trade in a car or put money down we don't have to pay taxes on that portion. Which helps....some :)
BethJ are you sure about not paying tax on that? I thought I paid tax on the sale price even though my final cost was only 10K after tradein. I guess I will have to check that.
 

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Hi JJ,

just another note: my quotes were for men in fulltime jobs. If you take women in fulltime jobs into account, you'll end up with approx 40.000€ (since they get an average 9K€ less doing the same jobs) and if you take all those people into account, who do not work fulltime or maybe split their income, having 2 different jobs, you'll probably ent up at around 35.000€ for the real Johnny Average too.
Then again, you still have to have an eye on about 10% of the people being unemployed, and, and, and...

As DeMarco said some posts before, my quotes seemed to be somewhat high, since they were based on this male/fulltime job thingy, which again is anything but representative!

Just found another stat, which might make a little bit more sense - the '02 average yearly net (to take home) income (per household/per head) in Germany was at about 15.000€ (self employed, unemployed, retired persons, etc. included).

Thats what you have to pay the gas prices, the Calibers, the rent, your food, your anything from.
I think it is all about comparing the right stats whith each other to come to a meaningfull result!

Well, and after all, there still is no Caliber in sight and that is, what really bothers me ;)
 

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That 36000€ was also for men. Women make around 30000€ on average. These figures are from january-march 2006 and they are taken from out national statistics center website. But I think these figures include also part-time jobs, although I cannot be certain.

Anyway, it would be quite interesting to compare equivalent stats from different countries, but it looks like every country publish different kind of stats and thus comparing is very difficult...or would require extensive work.

I just went on asking around and found out that if I order CRD Caliber now, I'll get it sometime in january '07. DAMN!

-JJ-
 

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mistermario said:
BethJ are you sure about not paying tax on that? I thought I paid tax on the sale price even though my final cost was only 10K after tradein. I guess I will have to check that.
That might be an Indiana thing, I'm not sure. I do know that for example your car was $20,000 and you traded in you current car with a trade in value (or at least what "they" think is your trade in value lol) of $5,000. They only charge you tax on the $15,000 that you still have to finance. Then you have to add in those stupid destination fees and that crap but that is how it happens here. I was wrong however on the putting money down. It only works with a trade in.
 
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