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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I can honestly say, I don't know where the hell the air box draws it's air in from. This "fresh air duct" as it is labeled by DCX is not only blocked by the closing of the hood, but sealed by the weatherstripping placed in front of it.

So I pull it off and toss it in the back, leaving the battery exposed and the rectangular duct on the airbox, now drawing in hot engine bay air.

Despite the heat soak, the engine seems peppier and the sound is more prominent. Sounds like a vacuum cleaner at the lower RPMs, the higher RPMs don't seem to have changed in pitch, just volume.

No check engine light or anything.

Also, the "fresh air duct" has a small inlet inside of it where it dumps into a resonator chamber, this is the NVH (Noise, Vibration, Harshness) crap I was talking about previously.

It's so freaking siimple to do this mod, just twist the two plastic retaining screws on the battery cover/"fresh air duct", pull up and towards the front and your done.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
BlueHawaii said:
why not remove the weatherstripping and try to make the duct functional, instead? I haven't messed or looked at anything under the hood yet. will check the oil today :p
Look how the hood sits down into the front clip, even with the weather stripping gone, you still have very little to no air getting in the crack between the front clip and the bottom of the hood. Since that is the only orifice I see where it draws air in from, I would much rather have it removed and sucking up hot engine air, than gasping for "fresh air" from that crack.
 

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im gunna attempt when i get my car back from MAGNAFLO to relocate the battery and do a proper cold air... will see what happens.
 

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CoolCallie said:
Look how the hood sits down into the front clip, even with the weather stripping gone, you still have very little to no air getting in the crack between the front clip and the bottom of the hood. Since that is the only orifice I see where it draws air in from, I would much rather have it removed and sucking up hot engine air, than gasping for "fresh air" from that crack.
That's what I thought when I first looked at it. That is a small hole and a weird contraption in front of the air-box. I figured that the engineers knew what they were doing... :confused:

Has anyone attempted to change that OEM air filter? It's a pain to get that box closed back together! As soon as a decent cold-air mod comes out I'm replacing it! I don't like current under-hood-cold-air intakes (that Mopar one). I want a true cold-air intake that draws from near the front grill or from a ram-air-hood (waiting for a cool ram-air-hood to be created).
 

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Gauze/Oil type cone filters such as K&N allow way too much fine dust through for me. No thanks. I'll have to take a look at the stock intake and see what can be done. It's a small displacement 4 banger and shouldn't need all that much of an opening.
 

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Huff said:
Gauze/Oil type cone filters such as K&N allow way too much fine dust through for me. No thanks.
That also concerns me... and that they are pulling in hot air. I guess if they pull in more air then it's better (sans the dust)...
 

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I pulled mine off. It definately sounds different when the gas is stepped on, and accelleration does improve a little. Haven't calculated the gas milage, though I doubt it would be better, I'm always romping on that poor little 2.0.

I'll give that car credit, it does pick up and go pretty well!
 

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Huff said:
Gauze/Oil type cone filters such as K&N allow way too much fine dust through for me. No thanks. I'll have to take a look at the stock intake and see what can be done. It's a small displacement 4 banger and shouldn't need all that much of an opening.
Where are you coming up with this. I may be wrong, but everything I have researched has show that those types of filters remove more contaminants and allow more air to pash through. That was the reason for the oil.

My brother is working on making a cold-cold aic for my caliber. if and when he ever gets it done, i'll post pics.
 

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rcompart said:
Where are you coming up with this. I may be wrong, but everything I have researched has show that those types of filters remove more contaminants and allow more air to pash through. That was the reason for the oil.
I'll have to dig around and post a link to some independent studies done. There has never been any independent test that shows the K&N filter will actually increase mpg or hp by itself. The tests clearly show that more very fine dust gets through that a conventional paper filter. They do filter slightly more larger particles and thats what K&N shows on their website. A few years ago K&N did show the % of particles by size allowed through and even their website showed a higher % for fine particles. They removed that last time I looked.

Other similar filters such as Wix, Napa etc. do filter considerably better than a K&N in the independent tests I've seen. Never rely on the manufactures statements. They are misleading and often report only what they want you to know.
 

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well heres how i look at it...theres is no way to block "fine dust" or everything from getting into the motor. i noticed someone before saying its a 4 banger doesnt need much air. granted but horsepower and mpg are based on more air in and more exhaust out. thats why people are doing a turbo on 4 banger to get more air in the motor. just my 2 cents
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
rcompart said:
Where are you coming up with this. I may be wrong, but everything I have researched has show that those types of filters remove more contaminants and allow more air to pash through. That was the reason for the oil.

My brother is working on making a cold-cold aic for my caliber. if and when he ever gets it done, i'll post pics.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest1.htm

Not only does the K&N filter not filter worth a damn against even factory paper air filters, the flow difference is also minute when measured with a manometer.
 

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I tool the fresh air thingy off last night. The engine kinda has a purr now when I step on the gas. To early to tell if it has any effect on the engine and such.
 

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Here's my 2 cents :) ,

I ride motorcycles as a hobby and own 2 1100 cc 1980-81 Honda Goldwings. Now, generally, Mr. Honda over engineered his products, certainly his bikes.

The Goldwing GL 1100 has an interesting air intake system !!!!. The air intake into the air box faces backwards and sucks warm air that comes up from the engine. Also, because the intake faces backwards, there's a pressure drop at the mouth, so the air can only be sucked in, no help from driving speed. As well as this, the intake itself is constricted. Now, the general rule of thumb is that the air intake opening should be at least as large as the sum of all the throttle throats, so if the throats are, lets say 40 mm, the sum would be 4 x 40 x 3.142 = 500 sq mm. Well, it aint !!!!!!!!.

Turning the intake cover round, and enlarging the holes does make a difference in this case, certainly at speed. There's the cooler air getting in, and the advantage of a sort of "ram-air"effect. A noticable increase in pick up above about 2,500 rpm and highway speeds. And this is WITH the factory filter.

The theory is sound and proven, so CoolCallie's option is certainly a possible way to go for very little outlay (New filter).

Nothing worse than an astmatic ride :D

Dave.
 

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Huff said:
The tests clearly show that more very fine dust gets through that a conventional paper filter.
Yes, on a brand new, or freshly washed and oiled filter, it does. Which is why K & N states that the dirtier the filter gets, the better it filters. I have a K & N filter on my Jeep Wrangler, and I go on some pretty dusty trails. After I get home, I take the filter off and wack it on the ground to dislodge the dust and put it back on. I'm VERY happy with the filter. I have a bored out throttle body and a cat-back exhaust, and the performance increase was very noticeable with the combination of the three.
 

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All I can say is that the K&N filters allow more dirt through period. Run it clean, dirty whatever. Do an oil analysis after 3K-5K miles. Then run a paper filter and do the same and note the difference. I have. No way will I ever put a K&N filter in my engine again. The only ones touting its abilities is K&N. No credible independent testing has ever been done to show K&N to be superior at filtering and it won't give any appreciable gains in HP or Torque. The CAI itself may in some vehicles but its not the filter giving the gains.
 

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We beat this topic up for 4-5 years on a few PT forums. In no way do I want to flame anyone, or bash their "beliefs", but to mention that "the car FEELS faster" or "appears to have more pep" once the intake has been altered is in no way a scientific resolution to a situation. The only way to state, with 100% proof that something added HP or increased OOMF, it to dyno, or air-flow test the before and after.

Many people, including myself, swapped the OWM filter with an K&N or other cone type. Did the engine breath better? Was there an increase in oomf? The amount of air required for 4 cylinders (turbo or NA) does not justify changing anything. Even if you remove any cleaner or ducting, the air flow is still a function of the 4 cylinders.

Many after market stores will advertise "UP TO 10 HP GAIN". Notice the UP TO! High end engines (not stock) will benefit with less restricting air flow, no debate there. Our findings and discussions seemed to conclude that the stock, 4cyl, would not.

Same with exhaust. Added dual pipes from the cat back changes nothing performance wise (except that your wallet may be a bit lighter), as the pipe from the head back, and through the cat is still OEM. Even changing to 4" from head back really does not change anything. Looks cool (in fact, I have dual Bassani on mine) but there is no change to anything.

Sure, its easy to say "I FEEL MORE POWER", but there is no scientific proof that duals (cat back) or intakes change much at all.


I agree with the earlier statement, that "you'd think the DC engineers know what they are doing", with regards to where the intake is. Seems to me, sucking hotter in-bay air (less dense) might seem counter productive (as would be the case if the OEM intake was removed), but I have nothing to measure that with. I would focus in on removing some weather stripping at the base if the windshield in order to make the engine bay cooler at speed (there is a downflow, reverse pressure at that point, tested easily with strands of yawn, heck, or cowl induction hoods from days gone far away!), to compliment the removed OEM intake. But again, without the tools and measurement equipment, only a flow bench set up can say for sure.

Again, I am not here to bash any one's beliefs or counter the "It feels faster" statements, being an engineer, I like cold hard facts, and in 5+ years looking at these things, its not been convincing to me.

Your mileage may vary

S
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Sean said:
Many after market stores will advertise "UP TO 10 HP GAIN". Notice the UP TO! High end engines (not stock) will benefit with less restricting air flow, no debate there. Our findings and discussions seemed to conclude that the stock, 4cyl, would not.

Same with exhaust. Added dual pipes from the cat back changes nothing performance wise (except that your wallet may be a bit lighter), as the pipe from the head back, and through the cat is still OEM. Even changing to 4" from head back really does not change anything. Looks cool (in fact, I have dual Bassani on mine) but there is no change to anything.

Sure, its easy to say "I FEEL MORE POWER", but there is no scientific proof that duals (cat back) or intakes change much at all.
How an engine was broken in has a direct relation to how well it responds to modifications. My last vehicle, a 2003 Mazda6 3.0L V6, when I got it, it had already left the critical stage of the break-in period and the car had been babied. Took it to the dyno after the second oil change at 3,000 miles and it laid out 159.7 FWHP:



Then we had others, same car, same engine, just broken in properly and it was making between 170-180 FWHP stock. Those engines responded alot better to the modifications done, as to actual terms of WHP and lbs-ft, than mine did. THAT is where you get the "up to" from, for a manufacturer of anything to make such a claim, they have to have a way to prove it. K&N often uses the 2003 Mustang Cobra as their basis for their HP gains in advertising, because it is the most impressive.
 
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