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Discussion Starter #1
Well guys,

I got a chance to check out a Caliber R/T today, orange blast, AWD, fully loaded. WHAT A BEAUTIFUL CAR.

It had nice comfortable heated seats, stereo controls on the steering wheel... just everything you would expect from a quality vehicle. That ORANGE colour is also VERY nice!

As I sat in that wicked little caliber, I thought to myself... "u know what, i can almost put MONEY down that Dodge is going to royally screw us over on the SRT4 version".

If you think about it, and compare FULLY LOADED neons to a Neon SRT4, they pretty well took out comfort features in exchange for performance.

Now, in Caliber's case, the engineers have said they will at LEAST leave in the cruise control and rear-power windows; HOWEVER...

...I am already fearing the worst, things like the removal of the heated seats, no steering wheel controls, even the rear view mirror is probably going to be cheaped out of all it's cool features like the Blue Tooth hands free phone system.

OR... they might give you the extras as an OPTION, but you'll have to sacrifice SRT-goodies (such as switching 'viper inspired' seats on the neons, for the leather seats with side impact air-bags).

So, am I just paranoid!? I'm surprised someone didn't post this question on the last SRT Engineer interview, give them some feedback BEFORE the car is released.

Anyone else share my views that it would be a sad, sad mistake for Dodge to cheap out on this car???

Opinions people!!! ............. :cool:
 

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You are probably right, the creature comforts will most likely be sacrificed for the SRT goodies. I have been researching what car to get when the lease runs out on my Si the end of this year. I was originally looking at the Mazda3s Grand Touring because it has every creature comfort there is. However, I am willing to giive up the creature comforts for 300hp. I figure I can live with the basics as long as I have fun driving it, which I know I will. Basically what it comes down to is they want to keep it affordable so it is either the speed and handling or the creature comforts. Unfortunately you can't have both at the price range they are targeting. I will be happy with a couple of things....1) Killer sound system, which we know it will have as an option and 2) satellite radio. Everything else is a bonus to me. However, it all comes down to each individual.
 

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If you want a BMW, buy a BMW.... or a higher end SRT product....

SRT Branded products are about performance. If the soccer mom stuff still fits, doesn't weigh much, and doesn't mean sacrificing performance and their styling to meet the cost target, it will probably stay. But sacrificing anything that SRT is about for a gee-whiz rearview mirror would be about as smart as Mazda creating the Mazdaspeed Protege.... What's the point of a performance car that has no performance, compared to an SRT vehicle.
 

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Ironside said:
Well guys,

I got a chance to check out a Caliber R/T today, orange blast, AWD, fully loaded. WHAT A BEAUTIFUL CAR.

It had nice comfortable heated seats, stereo controls on the steering wheel... just everything you would expect from a quality vehicle. That ORANGE colour is also VERY nice!

Personally I hope it does happen in a big way...Throw away the crap. Give me 300HP, 6 speed, AWD and a tach. I don't need anything else. No damn radio, AC, keyless entry PW and all the other garbage. Keep your airbags too. I'll take my chances. That said I know Dodge will never do this. They know how to herd the sheep and they do it with overpriced toys that make DCX tons of money and degrade the consumers freedom of choice. Heated seats? You have to be kidding? Shoot me now!
 

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Degrade freedome of choice? What the hell? :rolleyes:

The number of options this car has doesn't even come close to degredation of freedom of choice. You are an extreme minority. The general public, even the public that loves speed, are not going to buy a race car that doesn't have even the basic creature comforts. These are not trailer queens, and what suits you does not suit everyone. The market for the SRT-4 will be extremely limited if it doesn't compare with other vehicles of its class. Even the basic SRT-4 will have airbags, A/C and power steering. Air bags are required by law, and the others are there because every other "fast" vehicle has them. Even the Viper has them. And just so you are aware, in case you haven't heard, the SRT-4 will not be AWD. That's straight from the guys that build the damn thing.

You talk about degredation of choice and yet you propose making a vehicle that suits your needs. You talk about limiting the customer base with a vehicle that is barely suited to be a passenger vehicle because you think it's better. The Caliber SRT-4 is not a race vehicle, nor was it designed to be. When you buy it, you can strip all that crap out of it and do what you please with it.

Don't limit my freedom of choice because you think it's better that way.
 

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Silverfox said:
Degrade freedome of choice? What the hell? :rolleyes:

The number of options this car has doesn't even come close to degredation of freedom of choice. You are an extreme minority. The general public, even the public that loves speed, are not going to buy a race car that doesn't have even the basic creature comforts. These are not trailer queens, and what suits you does not suit everyone. The market for the SRT-4 will be extremely limited if it doesn't compare with other vehicles of its class. Even the basic SRT-4 will have airbags, A/C and power steering. Air bags are required by law, and the others are there because every other "fast" vehicle has them. Even the Viper has them. And just so you are aware, in case you haven't heard, the SRT-4 will not be AWD. That's straight from the guys that build the damn thing.

You talk about degredation of choice and yet you propose making a vehicle that suits your needs. You talk about limiting the customer base with a vehicle that is barely suited to be a passenger vehicle because you think it's better. The Caliber SRT-4 is not a race vehicle, nor was it designed to be. When you buy it, you can strip all that crap out of it and do what you please with it.

Don't limit my freedom of choice because you think it's better that way.
Ala carte is true consumer freedom of choice. Stripped down for those for those that want it and loaded for those that want that. Choices for all. Not the case anymore. I remember when I could go to the local GM or Mopar dealer and pick and choose. I got EXACTLY what I wanted. The list of choices was amazing. Now its a matter of corporate profit and this means accepting these mind numbing vehicles without a whimper. The speciality cars (SRT etc) need to have at least one variant that is about being one with the machine. Not about having your posterior artificially warmed. I know my view is a tad extreme for the day and I'm glad. I did not say my version would be better. It would just be mine. Who knows? Build a few SRT's with minimal equipment. They might just catch on. Seems like I remember something minimalist called a GTO that would never sell? Now what happened there? Oh and just try stripping all that "crap" out and getting a modern vehicle to run. If you unhook the wire from the engine coolant sensor most won't start. These things are engineered units and most of the modules depend on all of the other units being online. Very difficult to undo without consequences. Yeah.. kind of like people....One makes static, gets offline and is immediately branded as reactionary and a threat to the programming of the herd. I love it! Resistance is not futile! Come on DCX...Caliber SRT with AWD, 6 speed and OK.. a heater! A BIG tach is a must! Right in the center! Let's drive!!
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Well... I can see what you're saying about wanting pure performance out of the car so it is 'fun to drive'. I think the Caliber SRT4 WILL be fun to drive, but why should the consumer HAVE to pick between COMFORTS (which they will more than likely get use out of EVERY DAY they drive to work, go out with friends, go out on trips etc) and performance, which you may get to play with during the summer months, so long as you dont get pulled over by cops.

I just think that you can make a FAST performance vehicle AND include the bells and whistles. You should SEE people's reactions when they're looking at my CURRENT SRT4, they're amazed by it and then taken back when they hear "wait... you mean it doesn't even have cruise control? no pwr windows in the back? wtf?" It makes you think, why did I drop almost $30,000 on a speed machine thats missing features that even my Neon R/T had in spades (and i got that R/T for $10,000 FULLY LOADED to the brim).

At the very least, I hope to high hell that I'll be able to walk into a dealership and say I want this, this, this, this and that... and have them add it ONTO the SRT4 without sacrificing the 'nicer seats' or any of the other premium features I'm paying for, EVEN IF I HAVE TO PAY MORE for EACH add-on.

As you get older you start realizing a vehicle cant be ALL about speed and fun factor, you need practicality too; in most cases, you CAN have both... but why not with SRT?

It's like my dad, he bought a 1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited, with the 5.9litre engine, it's practical AND hauls ass. That's what it should be about.
 

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Like all varients of the Caliber, the SRT-4 will most likely be availible with as few options as the consumer wants. In your example, the heated seats are, are you ready for this, an option! Yes, folks, it is entirely possible to get your brand new Caliber without heated seats! It's alos possible to get the Caliber without a tach! Imagine that! You choices are still there, and it's entirely possible to special order vehicles that have exactly what you want on them. Don't want heated seats? Don't want leather? Don't want traction control? Don't want ABS? You can opt not to get them. These cars are not cookie cutter cars, as DCx knows that not all consumers are the same. The SRT-4 will have the same options as the rest of the Calibers. Nothing practical is fast, but nothing fast is practical. At 21, I understand that speed isn't what it's about anymore. I'm already out of the sports car, zoom zoom go fast stage of car ownership. 300 horses is more than enough for people like me.

This is the new millenium. Consumers nowadays want comfort as well as speed. A minimalist car like the Neon ACR or the Goat would sell back then, but not now. Save for a handful of comsumers, no one would want such a sparse vehicle. Blame our culture, not DCx for making the cars the way they do.

What's the facination with BIG TACHS? You need a tach to know when to shift? Huh...
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Silverfox said:
What's the facination with BIG TACHS? You need a tach to know when to shift? Huh...
I was just gonna say... I dont even look at my tach when i'm driving, you just FEEL the vehicle.

I LIKE having one, but it's not necessary.

In the Army, our jeeps dont even have tachs, and they're manual, you just need to KNOW when to shift... it's never been a problem. :cool:
 

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I agree 100% with Sil. :D
 

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Dale Seeley said:
If you want a BMW, buy a BMW.... or a higher end SRT product....

SRT Branded products are about performance. If the soccer mom stuff still fits, doesn't weigh much, and doesn't mean sacrificing performance and their styling to meet the cost target, it will probably stay. But sacrificing anything that SRT is about for a gee-whiz rearview mirror would be about as smart as Mazda creating the Mazdaspeed Protege.... What's the point of a performance car that has no performance, compared to an SRT vehicle.
Seeley is 100% dead on. If your gonna market a performance car then by god it better have some performance. The SRT's are a niche market anyway, so no need to appeal to the commuter, I gotta take the kids to practice, pick up some milk, work-a-day cry babies. Why do you need heated seats anyway? If romping on the go pedal, and unleasing 300 tire smoking horse power isn't enough to get your blood boiling then the SRT-4 is probably not for you. If you add all these options and get the price out of the "best bang for the buck" catagory, and up around $30,000 then your up there with a different class of car. Sti, Evo, 325i, A4...you get the idea
 

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BluestedSRT said:
Seeley is 100% dead on. If your gonna market a performance car then by god it better have some performance. The SRT's are a niche market anyway, so no need to appeal to the commuter, I gotta take the kids to practice, pick up some milk, work-a-day cry babies. Why do you need heated seats anyway? If romping on the go pedal, and unleasing 300 tire smoking horse power isn't enough to get your blood boiling then the SRT-4 is probably not for you. If you add all these options and get the price out of the "best bang for the buck" catagory, and up around $30,000 then your up there with a different class of car. Sti, Evo, 325i, A4...you get the idea
AMEN to that!:D I don't think they should cut out all, just most of it!;)
 

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Discussion Starter #13
BluestedSRT said:
Seeley is 100% dead on. If your gonna market a performance car then by god it better have some performance. The SRT's are a niche market anyway, so no need to appeal to the commuter, I gotta take the kids to practice, pick up some milk, work-a-day cry babies. Why do you need heated seats anyway? If romping on the go pedal, and unleasing 300 tire smoking horse power isn't enough to get your blood boiling then the SRT-4 is probably not for you. If you add all these options and get the price out of the "best bang for the buck" catagory, and up around $30,000 then your up there with a different class of car. Sti, Evo, 325i, A4...you get the idea
So what you're saying is, people who want NICE cars that are also high performance are cry babies? What is so wrong with being able to OFFER these options for those who WANT to pay extra for them?

I love cars that can go-fast, hence why i OWN an SRT4, but I would ALSO like to have a car with comfort features that Caliber owners who pay a lot LESS than us are getting with THEIR cars. If we're paying the PREMIUM price for OUR version of the Caliber, why should we have to sacrifice things that other people get to enjoy for LESS money?

There are some people who happen to LOVE Dodge vehicles, particularly SRT4's, but for you to sit there and tell ME that "an SRT4 isn't for me" just because my opinion differs from yours? That's a little arrogant.

Why should I have to either 'settle' for a cheap P.O.S. low-end vehicle just to get some comfort goodies OR "buy a more expensive SRT" to get what I want?

Maybe I dont have $60,000 CDN to drop on an SRT8 that has EVERYTHING I want, but hey... $30-$40,000 CDN is a hell of a lot more realistic.

What's the point of a performance car that has no performance, compared to an SRT vehicle.
Why are you implying that by putting in a few comfort features you'll somehow KILL all the performance in the Caliber's 300hp engine!?!!? Put in a few bells & whistles, the Caliber will STILL perform.

I guess what i'm sayin guys is; not everyone lives to take their cars to the racetrack, but that doesn't mean we want to miss out on the performance an SRT vehicle can bring to a NORMAL person's life. :cool:

Why do you guys think a performance vehicle has to be stripped down JUST to gain those EXTRA few seconds on a track when they CAN be so much more AND be retarded fast?

Come on Sil' get in here and back me up... lol :D
 

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I've got your back Ironside. I love my SRT-4 to death, I love speed, I love going fast, and I love going to the track. But I also use my SRT-4 for my daily commute to college, and also as my vehicle for work, which requires ALOT of driving. So needless to say I am in my car ALOT. And every time I'm on one of those long drives it kills me how basic and boring the car is on the inside. Short of the killer seats. It sure would have been nice if I could have opted for some leather viper inspired seats (ie: the seats in the Charger SRT-8) which I wouldn't have minded paying an extra $1200 for. It would have been nice if I could have opted for the Navigation system that comes in alot of the Dodge vehicles, which there is no reason wouldn't fit and function in the SRT-4. There's alot of cool things which alot of people want in a car, and are more than willing to pay for, that for some reason weren't offered on the SRT-4 and most likely won't be offered on the Caliber SRT-4 either.

An example, small but means alot to me. On the new PT Cruisers that gauge cluster has a little information center that tells you your average miles, how many miles till an exmpty tank, etc etc, it's a nice that little feature that comes on alot od Dodge/Chrysler vehicles, we'll probably get gimped out of this feature on the Caliber SRT-4. To some of you who think this is a pointless feature, good for you, I like it, I want it, and I would pay the extra money for the option which I believe is called the "Driver Information Center" you can usually select this option when you build a vehicle on-line.

Options are called options for a reason. Because they're f*****g options. Give me the option to choose them. In this day and age where customizing your car is such a big deal, you would think the manufacturer's and dealer's would be swarming on the chance to let you add a million options that you feel you may or may not need.

If given the option for power windows or not, alot of choose yes, alot of us would choose no. For those who only care about power, don't get the damn power windows. For those of us who want some creature comforts, pay a little extra for the power convienece package. This seems like common knowledge to me. But again, dodge will probably screw us over on the Caliber SRT-4.

It's the same deal with any of the options to, if you want a nice sound system get the kicker option, if you want save money and only want power, don't get it. Easy easy easy. You can plug this scenario in with any damn option, offer it for those want it. Take it out for those who don't. This way everyone is satisfied. No one has room to complain, because veryone got exactly what they wanted.

There is no reason in hell I should have to sacrifice the things I want, just because they stuffed a different engine in the engine bay. It's still a Caliber that shares the same (almost) exactl interior as every other caliber on the production line.

Take that home, chew it.
 

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I have your back too man, nothing much more to say, you pretty much layed it out, no way to argue it.

I hate that they proably will do that though, its screws the people that want to go fast and have some comforts (me too) over...


Pointless..



P.S. Rofl @ the last line...:D
 

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I do feel that Dodge is going to screw us, but something just crossed my mind.

Current Gen Neons. The Base model Caliber is cheaper than a Base model Neon. So if they follow some sort of pattern why is the SRT-4 Caliber going to be more expensive than the SRT-4 Neon? Maybe we are going to get more options?
 

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Nytmare said:
... An example, small but means alot to me. On the new PT Cruisers that gauge cluster has a little information center that tells you your average miles, how many miles till an exmpty tank, etc etc, it's a nice that little feature that comes on alot od Dodge/Chrysler vehicles, we'll probably get gimped out of this feature on the Caliber SRT-4. To some of you who think this is a pointless feature, good for you, I like it, I want it, and I would pay the extra money for the option which I believe is called the "Driver Information Center" you can usually select this option when you build a vehicle on-line...
I realize you're referring to the SRT-4, but I recalled reading something about this feature in my Caliber owners manual.

Page 144 refers to the "ELECTRONIC VEHICLE INFORMATION CENTER (EVIC) - If Equipped". The drawing on page 134 shows a drawing of the "INSTRUMENT CLUSTER - PREMIUM" that shows the control knob on the left side of the speedometer (mirroring the Odometer/Trip Odometer Reset Knob on the right side). NOTE: My car has the "INSTRUMENT CLUSTER - BASE", and the panel just has a small indent for where the knob would be located.

According to the text, the EVIC features:

- Compass/Temperature/Audio
- Average Fuel Economy
- Distance To Empty (DTE)
- Elapsed Time
- Tire Pressure Monitor (TPM)
- Personal Settings (a wide variety of features mostly relating to remote door lock/unlock settings, language and U-Connect displays, etc)

So it appears that this is an option already on the Caliber, and likely/hopefully would also be an option or feature on the SRT-4.
 

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That is indeed what I am referring to, and I do hope that it is an option on SRT-4. One of the reasons I feel it may get gimped though is that the SRT-4 uses a different wheel/tire combo than the base Caliber and may not be compatible with the Tire Pressure portion of the Gauge Cluster.
 

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It uses active sensors in the valve stems that send radio signals to the indicator. It will work with any combonation as long as the stems remain intact.
 

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Yep - what Silverfox said.

Another consideration is whether the SRT-4 will use the same dash/instrument cluster panels as the base Calibers.

On the current panel, the dash/instrument cluster panel is obviously the same basic part regardless of whether the vehicle is EVIC-equipped or not.

The basic panel has a small round (but solid) depression present to the left of the speedometer (like on mine). It seems that if the Caliber does NOT have the EVIC, the part is installed in the basic form - with the depression having a solid bottom. If the vehicle DOES have the EVIC feature, they merely drill/punch out the depressed solid bottom part of it to accomodate the knob.

I assume that the same dash/instrument cluster panels could be used on the SRT-4, as it already has a tach and other expected features that will be needed and desired for that model.

If not the same part, it will likely be very similar and could easily be be used in the same manner (merely creating a hole for a knob in an existing depression if EVIC-equipped) as a universal part for the SRT-4.
 
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