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kmktron said:
Hey I was just wondering if any one has heard any info on a release date for the srt4 like what month it is possibly coming out in.
Well they've said that it'll come out in Spring of '07. They haven't said anything about specific months. its way too hard to wait for it...:(
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
thanx for the quick reply i really want the srt4 but the caliber right now is just so awesome im torn between getting one now or waiting for the srt4
 

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kmktron said:
thanx for the quick reply i really want the srt4 but the caliber right now is just so awesome im torn between getting one now or waiting for the srt4
yeah no prob. i'm just ganna wait (this will be my first car) it pretty much works out cause i'll be turning 16 a few months after i get it giving me plenty of time learning how to drive a manual car. i'm also getting it cause my dad and i completly agree on it together. he really wanted a neon SRT-4 but never ended up getting one so now he feels like he'll get this one for sure...lucky me :D
 

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kmktron said:
thanx for the quick reply i really want the srt4 but the caliber right now is just so awesome im torn between getting one now or waiting for the srt4
yeah no prob. i'm just ganna wait (this will be my first car) it pretty much works out cause i'll be turning 16 a few months after i get it giving me plenty of time learning how to drive a manual car. i'm also getting it cause my dad and i completly agree on it together. he really wanted a neon SRT-4 but never ended up getting one so now he feels like he'll get this one for sure...lucky me :D
 

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zildjian_drummer3 said:
yeah no prob. i'm just ganna wait (this will be my first car) it pretty much works out cause i'll be turning 16 a few months after i get it giving me plenty of time learning how to drive a manual car. i'm also getting it cause my dad and i completly agree on it together. he really wanted a neon SRT-4 but never ended up getting one so now he feels like he'll get this one for sure...lucky me :D
Woah woah woah. The first car you're going to own is going to be a 300 hp srt4?

That's really not a good idea.
 

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You are looking at early February, best case, possibly May. Learning to drive a manual transmission is not any more difficult or damaging on a 300 hp car than it is an 80 hp car. It just allows more opportunity for wheelspin.

Modern clutches are very forgiving, the SRT-4 clutch is not going to require the leg muscles of a linebacker or the finesse of a figure skater, it will feel the same as a run of the mill, common, Caliber manual transmission vehicle.
 

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i figured someone would say that about me getting this car. i'm not sure if you're saying i couldn't handle driving it with all it's horsepower or if i would be way irresponsible with it and do 140 down the highway. well, just to let you know as for the responsibility issue i'm very responsible. i get top grades in my class and can be trusted. for the not being able to handle it thing: its not like i'm going to sit down in the car all by myself and say, "now how do i do this..." and learn with no help. my dad will be coaching me and teaching me how to do it. i have confidance in myself and my dad has confidance in me. plus i live in the middle of no where. i can walk 2 minutes from my house and hit a cornfield. i'll have plenty of country roads to learn how to drive a manual car. that'll be way better than some wal-mart parking lot.
 

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naw, I think amandyke just sees you having some trouble in tight situations and having a fancy new caliber would tend to make things a bit more difficult. Like, let's say you have to get started on a hill in traffic, or you're navigating a tight parking lot. Not that you're going to be negligent ... but you're going to have a tough time trying to make sure you don't rear rend or bash things.

I mean, you wouldn't want to have your manual transmission learning in a Lancer Evo ... not because you'll go rallying on your first day and wreck ... but because there are probably better cars to learn on that you won't have to worry so much about messing up so you can build confidence. Like, if you're grinding gears trying to force a car into first gear when you're coming up to a stop sign (almost all people do this when they first learn), you won't feel so bad if it's being done to a Honda Civic DX.
 

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one thing i am worried about is sitting at a stop light on a hill going up with a bunch of cars around me...that'll take some practice...with the whole brake and then clutch and first gear...but ok...i know people are ganna say this is way off...i don't give a damn. i can shift a manual dirt bike almost to perfection. i have ridden one only 2 times. (i know shifting in a car and a dirtbike are 2 completly different things! please keep in mind that i'm not some loser with a dirtbike who thinks they can drive a car because they can ride a bike!!) the principles are the same (let off the gas, push in the clutch and shift) so i feel like i could learn to drive a manual car almost as easily as i did with the bike. but still i see your point. with the hole parking lot thing...i live in the middle of no where. the closest "city" to me is 25,000 people. i can't think of one parking lot where the back spaces are NOT empty. if i really had trouble navigating in a close space i could just run and hide in the back of the lot. (plus it'll save me from those basterds who leave their carts in the middle of the lot:rolleyes:)

and i was wondering...how exactly do you engine brake...? is it like..you're slowing down to a stop and you just up shift? like from 4th into 3rd? i dunno. your input is apprieciated...
 

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The short version is that you don't have to always use engine braking. (I am assuming what you are referring to engine braking is where you just leave your car in gear and brake.... and push the clutch in before you stall out the engine). You could easily go to neutral (push clutch in / shift to neutral / let cluthc back out) and just brake until you stop and then start out from first gear. However, if you engine brake, you can save some wear on your brakes. I think the worst thing you can do is to just push the clutch in all the way and keep it pressed in until you stop.

I guess a more common thing that people use is double-clutching. This is:

1. Depress clutch and shift to a neutral position
2. lift off the clutch pedal
3. Now, you have to "blip" (give gas, but don't hold it down) the throttle to get the revs to increase to match where the revs would be if you entered the lower gear. So, while the revs are up, you depress the clutch and shift to your lower gear.
4. Assuming your revs are matched up right, as you lift off the clutch, the car will engage in the lower gear.

If you drive a manual, you should know how to do this double-clutching, but you don't have to do it all the time. This technique would let you "engine brake" all the way down to first or second gear and feel all proud about doing it :p

However, as I was saying in my previous post, most people will attempt this and grind their gears going into first at stop-sign intersections (or red lights). Even though synchros are in place to allow cars to engage lower gears without having to match up revs... but first gear is usually not easy to get into unless you are going very slowly.

So, if you try to force a 2-to-1 shift at 20 miles an hour without double clutching properly (you mis your revs), you'll hear stuff grinding below your butt (that's been the case with all my manual cars, but I haven't driven a manual lately). Also, it's not like you can force a 3-to-2 shift while going at 85 miles an hour with double clutching, you have to be at a reasonable speed that can have the revs match for the target gear.

I'm not sure what is going to happen in the Caliber SRT4, but I do know I beat the crap out of the clutch of my friend's '84 RX7, trying to get this down. I haven't driven a stick since my 95 Maxima (that car was so easy to drive, you could let out the clutch from a stop in 5th gear on a flat surface and it wouldn't stall out)... so I really don't know what's up wtih newer cars. I became pretty lazy in driving in recent years.

I'm sure you'll learn more through experience and your dad will have lots of guidance for ya... good luck :)
 

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Downshifting is a common method of using the engine to help brake the vehicle. It's especially fun in more sporting cars.

"Double clutching" was a method used to downshift before trannies had synchros...going back quite a few decades here. El-cheapo non-sports type trannies may have crummy synchro's..where you can bandaid it by double clutching..but better ones are smooth as butter...knowing how to blip the throttle to match where the revs should be as you engage the next lower gate is all you need to know. The tranny in the Caliber srt-4 being designed by Getrag...based on my past experience with European cars having Getrag trannies..it should be velvet smooth with top notch synchros. Downshifting with spirited driving is usually done in 5,4,3, and 2nd gear anways....as the goal is to keep your revs up to accel out of the next turn. First gear..you're assumed to be coming to a stop...so it's rather useless for aggressive downshifting..usually only done by people doing the "look at me" moves in city blocks as they blast their ricer coffee can exhausts.
 

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Using downshifting for 'engine braking' is a really bad idea, that's what brakes are for. As an example, how long, and how far does it take for your engine to accelerate you to 100 mph? How long, and how far does it take for your brakes, even used conservatively, to decelerate you from 100mph to zero?

Your brakes absorb a lot more horsepower than your engine produces, even considering the gearing advantages offered by the transmission.

Brakes are cheap, engines are not. Brakes are designed for decellerating, engines for accelerating. Saving a $75 set of brake pads by sacrificing rod and crankshaft bearings is not a sound business model, unless you are in the business of engines.

Perhaps what you meant to describe was 'rev-matching', where a driver will downshift (clutch in) while braking, blip the throttle to bring the engine speed up to the required rpm to avoid a weight transfer, clutch out while braking, and then return to throttle in the appropriate gear for corner exit. It is also (misleadingly) called 'heel-toe'. It is more difficult to do on the street than the racetrack as brake pressure on the street is rarely as aggressive as it is on the track.

But, you are right though, engine braking via downshift is a common activity, it helps us identify the people haven't paid for their own repairs yet:D
 

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ok first off... i donno about these people telling you to learn on lower power cars.... honestly the only thing you will have trouble with is 1st and second gear.... after that it's idiot proof... i have never owned an automatic granted i'm only 21 but been driving since 15... learned on a manual tested on a manual all that.... it's as simple as give some gas slowly let out the clutch in first gear and just feel the clutch grab... once it starts grabbing let it out more... it's all about the balance between the clutch and the gas... when it comes to breaking it's all a preference thing... press clutch throw it in neutral and just break... or... engine break... clutch in down a gear... repeat same clutch out procedure as earlier... you only need to "blip" if you are trying to get into the gear and maintain your current speed or get more acceleration... EX. Passing on the highway... i usually will downshift from 5th to fourth and accelerate... i donno why people are making this more complicated than it is... i taught myself how to drive stick and honestly its easier on a car with MORE torque cuz you have less likeleyhood of stalling the engine on hills and such on 1st gear.... E mail me if you have any questions man...
 

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Well, I sort of assumed that the driver would still be on the brake even though he was matching revs to keep his car in gear while coming to a stop. I don't think it's smart for anyone in either a manual or an auto to force a lower gear and rely on the engine soley to reduce their speed.

I think most normal decellerating in a manual is done in the original manner that I mentioned, where either the car is left in its original gear and the driver pushes in the clutch in before the car stalls out - or the driver simply shifts to neutral when they begin decellerating and then uses the brake only as means to slow down. This is probably the most comfortable way to go for passengers as well.

I don't subscribe to the notion that a car has a fixed number of compression strokes in its lifetime - I think it's more of how aggressively you drive and maitenance. If you're decellerating from 45 mph to 0, and your car is in gear from 45 mph to 20 in 4th gear, I do not think you're doing massive damage to your engine at normal RPMs. If you were to rely soley on the engine to brake and threw it into first gear at 35 mph each time you came to a red light, that's a different story.

Yeah, synchros will allow the car to rev match on its own without throttle input, but passengers in the car are going to feel a jolt when you engage the lower gears unless the driver lets the clutch out slowly (lots of clutch wear), or the revs got matched up a bit using the throttle and double clutching. I don't think you should bother doing this every single time you stop, but it's still something you should know since not all driving takes place where you are from start to stop, start to stop. Simply knowing how to get a car from 65 to 20 and be in the right gear to accellerate without giving you or your passengers seasickness is a good thing.

Some people want to try to get the car into first gear before their car comes to a stop (or near stop) at a 4-way intersection because they don't want to sit there and fidge around to get the car from neutral to first and then take off... and they may have some trouble here as well due to 1st gear being finicky.

It's all a learning thing, and no one can claim that their way is the best way. I think there have been thousands of these type of "debates" but it all comes down to personal preference. If you never rev match a day in your life you can still drive an manual effectively. If you rev match every single time you decellerate so your car is always in the right gear, that's fine too.
 

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Agreed, rev matching can be saved for the racetrack, where getting out of the corner in the powerband is important. Downshifting to slow the car down, effectively spinning the engine up with the transmission is not a good idea...

Dale
 
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